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Apple never denied the keyboard issues.

They offered an extended warranty and fixed the core issue in a subsequent design.



No, they didn't. First, they pretended the issue didn't exist, while charging people hundreds of dollars for new keyboards. Then, they announced a "quality program", where they'll replace your broken keyboard with another, equally defective one for 4 years. So after the 4 years is up, your keyboard is going to break again, and you'll have to pay again or get a new laptop.

While they did change the keyboard design in 2018, there are still reports that the "improved" keyboard is failing as well: https://www.reddit.com/r/applehelp/comments/9w6vk3/macbook_p... https://www.reddit.com/r/applehelp/comments/9w6vk3/macbook_p... https://twitter.com/kapeli/status/1090640259921166336


"improved" was a non-sealing dust jacket and even then apple was too chicken-shit coward to say it was an attempt to keep foreign particles entering the hinge. Apple called the addition a noise masking element, in my opinion an attempt to avoid giving evidence for any litigation against them that may come up.

Maybe this is all great business sense, but it really makes me consider if buying another apple laptop is a good idea.


It is great business sense. It keeps from giving the opposition ammunition in their lawsuit...

It's just a shame that good business sense isn't exactly good for the user.


"Never" is the wrong word here. They offer "quality program" long after the issue was discovered like:

- MacBook Air 2008 broken hinge issues

- image retention issues with Retina 2012 model

- GPU issues with NVIDIA GPU in Retina 2012 model

only to name a few that I personally faced that they later admitted to only after you likely fixed it out of pocket yourself (or sold the device) and with threats of lawsuit.


>2012 model

Don't forget the infamous 2011 model! And it's less publicized but a similar GPU issue affected the 2010 models as well.


I was personally affected by all those three I had listed, among other things. To add, I also personally faced:

- The 2016-2017 keyboard issue on all MacBooks of that generation I had (5-6 devices).

- The MacBook Air 2008 "core shutdown" issue that the machine thermally throttled itself to a grind and shut down all but a single core.

- Most recently, I faced a water damage issue with iPhone XS Max (the device is advertised as water resistant). Class action lawsuit, anyone?

My face gets grim when I have to admit that I am still a customer, even an advocate, because all the competitors produce mostly crap, insecure, poorly-made and/or invade your privacy. I have, however, started to break the ecosystem chain.

There's been obviously plenty more. Especially on the GPU side it was super annoying. Most of these things will break even after they "fix" it under their quality programs.


Honestly there are lots of solid alternatives. I had macs from the 90s to the 2007ish MacBook. After that I got frustrated with how unrepairable they became so I've been using dells and lenovos since and there are a lot of good options.

One credit to Apple, I had an imac that lasted forever. I loved that machine. But finally the disk died and I had to take the whole thing apart and the screen out just to replace the disk. That was the last Apple in my life. Good riddance! :)

But you can spend your money as foolishly or thoughtfully as you want. That's your call. Just try not to be suckered into thinking there aren't alternatives.


> I am still a customer, even an advocate, because all the competitors produce mostly crap, insecure, poorly-made and/or invade your privacy

Not true. There is hardware that is better made and more reliable than Apple (e.g. ThinkPad) and operating systems that are far more secure (e.g. Qubes).


Love the build on my ThinkPad laptops, and the customer service I've received when I've had minor issues has been amazing.

They sent a tech to my house to fix one device that was delivered with a badly fitted bottom cover, even though I had a return to depot warranty. I had a keyboard that died, I asked to replace the part myself and they happily posted it out. When one of the rubber feet came off another laptop they couriered me a brand new battery overnight (the foot is glued to the battery).

And, if I want more memory or disk, I can do that myself no trouble. No seals, no glue, no warranty stickers.


Lenovo is a manufacturer that shipped spyware to the users. No thanks, I’d rather do business with Apple. To be fair to Apple, when their devices work, they usually work fine. The issues that they don’t resolve are engineering defects that are present across the entire fleet. One-off issues they are mostly good with and the warranty experience overall is better than any other brand I worked with. That said, I believe Apple Retail leadership is bankrupt and the Apple Store experience has gone to shit. It feels like Nordstrom not Apple.


The first thing I do with any computer I receive is to install Fedora. I suppose BIOS/EFI is still scary though.


Apple is rapidly losing trust.

I see no evidence that anyone at Apple cares.


They're a massive company, and they can't justify anything by saying that they're the underdogs.


Also the 2007 model Nvidiagate issues


I'll refer back to this post next time someone repeats the canard the apple hardware was perfect until Jobs died.

Also the 2008 era white plastic MacBooks whose shells cracked and flaked off into sharp edges.


Apple only offered the extended warranty and fix after they were sued multiple times including class suits.

It took them almost two years after the first faulty laptop shipped for those steps to be taken. Let's not re-write history here.


As much as people love to exaggerate issues with Apple's products, Apple itself isn't particularly great when it comes to acknowledging hardware issues.


Neither is Microsoft, I owned a Surface pro and it was barely usable. Lots of people having the same experience, Paul Thurott being vocal about it. Microsoft remaining in denial. Not sure if the denial had any effect on people purchase decisions but I would never buy another Microsoft computer again.


I had an insane amount of network issues with my Surface Pro 3, and it received 35+ software updates regarding the marvel adapter over years before it started being reliable.


I have the most recent 2018 MacBook Pro and I still get stuck keys.


Stuck keys are an issue on every laptop if you get something under the mechanism.

The problem in the 2016/2017 models was that you couldn't fix the issue because the dust etc was firmly embedded.

The 2018 model has a membrane underneath so you should be able to fix the keys with compressed air.


Over the past 20 years I have owned various laptops from HP, MSi, Acer, Apple, and also (for my desktops) external keyboards from a number of additional vendors. The only keyboard that ever had any trouble was after I gave it to my 4yo and over time he got all sorts of food inside it.

My work 2018 mpb showed a stuck key after 2 weeks (no food near it), and it obviously is not bad luck on my part.


If I ate a sandwich over my old thinkpad and crumbs got under the keys, I'd just push the keys harder to crush the crumbs into dust. Total non-issue for the better part of a decade.

It's only when keyboards become thin and delicate that durability becomes a problem.


I'm convinced the problem with these keyboards isn't always debris under the keys. I've noticed it's often E and R, the keys right above the heatpipe system, which suggests that heat could be warping or damaging the contacts. This is even worse.


Yes, if you used to get a bit of toast stuck under the keys of an old Thinkpad you just bash the key a couple of times and the crumb breaks up a little. Problem solved. Clear out any crumbs, dust and accumulated pet hair every now and then for neatness.

Only '16 and on model Macbooks seem to require a cleanroom for the keyboard.


The membrane still has holes in it, letting dust get trapped inside the delicate parts. It just reduces the risk of dust getting inside in the first place


I have owned five Apple laptops and six Apple keyboards in total.

Two of those I used hard enough that keys fell off.

This latest is the only one which has had issues with the keys not working. Even the ones missing keys, there was a small nub left that still worked.

The main key failure has been the left Command key, which is an utter disaster. I’m furious about it.

Not quite furious enough to give up 15 years of the Mac. But close.


Same issue with the Command key on mine!


Maybe, but I've never experienced that problem on any laptop I've owned. I've been buying laptops for almost 20 years.


I returned a 2018 MacBook Air with the membrane because it failed with the same failure mode. Then I got duplicate key presses.

I now use a thinkpad.


I've tried with compressed air and it's only a temporary fix. Same issue w/ 2016-7 MacBook Pros.


Magic keyboard also suffer from this design


Really? I thought that they were using the same design from the original Magic Keyboard :(




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