Payment processing costs are a scam. They're 10x as expensive as they need to be to fund rewards programs and fund the financial system.
EU max credit card transaction fees are 0.3%, in the US they can be up to 4%.
It just doesn't cost 4% of a transaction to handle the exchange of funds. Just wealth transfer to finance people and the upper class who take advantage of credit card perks.
Can someone explain to me if EU card transactions are capped, why Stripe charges me (US) the full ride on my EU customer's cards? In fact, I get charged even more for EU cards – perhaps as much as 2.5% extra.
I just checked and I get charged ~8% in fees on a 10 euro transaction on Stripe. Of course some of that is the low transaction amount (flat 0.30), but it's brutal for a small business like myself.
The EU only capped interchange fees, which is the amount that goes to the bank that issued the card. It did not cap the fees that go the your PSP. Which makes sense, since you can pick the PSP you do business with, but you can't pick the bank that issues your customers' cards.
(And I don't think it applies to US merchants like you anyways)
perhaps they are capped only for EU merchants, because EU government works to protect their own companies and citizens from foreign artificial unregulated monopolies.
in US, the government is more protective of private monopolies due to lobbying
How are you defining monopolies? Companies that are successful? Because you seem to be defining most US companies that do business in Europe as monopolies. It seems that this is the kind of mindset that has kept Europe behind. Too bad. Regulation that keeps out competition or needlessly puts obstacles in place is bad for the consumer, bad for employment, and bad for the general standard of living. And If you think US companies are unregulated then you haven't seen the 20 ft of federal CFR regulations together with the regulations of 50 different states that US companies have to deal with everyday.
Interestingly, the EU did manage to cap interchange on US cards paid by EU merchants to pretty much the same rate as that paid for domestic/intra-EU cards, at least at the POS. Many things are possible with a regulator with teeth.
The funny thing about that is that HN used to say if the fee was 4% it's because that's what it costs and if it was any lower the card networks would just abandon the country that forced it to be lower, since they'd lose money.
I remember people saying the same thing. It was some time ago.
Turns out some markets really aren’t that efficient and corporate capture really is a thing…
The irony is that every couple you shop with just increases the prices of their items to deal with the fees, so you're just paying more for items to feel good about getting reward program benefits.
Most places other than the USA, when they use these card networks or their local country networks, are normally using debit cards. There's just no reason to overcomplicate a payment card by making it also a loan.
Mid-thirties Brit here. I've never owned a credit card, neither has my partner.
All of our card transactions are with a debit card.
I've never needed instant-access debt so it's not really an attractive proposition. Perhaps the added consumer protection rules could be worth it, but it's not been an issue to date.
Much more common in Europe, which is partly cultural, and partly because there's not the same single/dual message technical distinction between debit and credit cards, so you don't "need" a credit card in the way you would for certain things in the US (e.g. a hotel that wants to preauth it).
That surprises me, I've never met someone that uses Debit cards as their primary method of payment.
You lose a lot of consumer protections and many cashback rewards by using only Debit cards. The only drawback to credit cards is the interest, if you don't pay it off at the end of the month. So long as you're responsible with your spending, it's a direct upgrade.
> That surprises me, I've never met someone that uses Debit cards as their primary method of payment.
That in turn is not surprising – the split is very much correlated with socioeconomic status (to the point where quite a few of the people working on debit card products have never themselves used a debit card to pay, in my experience).
> The only drawback to credit cards is the interest [...]
Which is a significant drawback if your bank account balance regularly oscillates around zero and/or you've seen your peers get in financial trouble from credit card debt.
I buy flights on credit card, and other one-off purchases like house and car insurance, and often my Costco purchases (because the credit card lives in a different wallet where I normally keep my membership card).
My day-to-day wallet just contains a debit card so that gets used for almost everything else.
Internet transactions are usually done using Revolut because then I can use a disposable card number.
do consider that in Italy most credit cards cost around ~30€ per year + a 2€ tax for all months you spend more than ~70€ and most offer no benefits. Debit cards are offered for free by all banks. So credit is only used to rent cars (not really mandatory anymore) and if you really need the credit (but other ways of getting short term credit exist now).
Given the price at the register is $X across all payment methods, I prefer to use my card that lets me pay 0.96X 30 days later. (I don't know what discount you can get from UK rewards cards...)
I hope that rewards cards go away, because they distort the market, but I'm going to use them while they're here. Rewards cards push costs onto customers that don't use them, and I don't want costs pushed onto me.
I briefly skimmed this, but why are you wasting my time? What does this have to do with me earning free trips from being smart about how I buy things? does not compute.
The only good use case for a credit card is if you are buying something from someone you do not trust. I have a CC and it use it a few times a year. But using them to pay for groceries or ordering something from Amazon is just moronic.
The way I see it: you are either rich and don't care or you are poor and need to spend money that is not in your account (no judging I grew up poor and had to hide from debt collectors when I was a kid).
Note that this is highly location dependent. In most of Europe, credit cards are basically all that exists (that is, even "debit cards" are just credit cards with a balance); and regardless of the type of card, because all payments are either chip & pin, biometric based, or verified with some additional 2FA, it's extremely hard to dispute a charge, whether a charge to a credit or debit card.
There's also "contactless" credit card payments in the UK and are common for buying things in shops/pubs etc. I don't know what the situation would be if you were to dispute an incorrect contactless charge.
Those are common in all of Europe, and they are still based on either biometrics (if using your phone) or the card's chip. They do typically include a transaction value and count limit below which the biometrics or pin don't actually get checked, for ease of use. But, given that this limit is controlled by the user, I expect that the contract terms also prevent you from disputing transactions below those limits - though I haven't read carefully enough to be sure.
I don't think I can control the contactless limit on any of my cards (I'm in the UK). Occasionally, the contactless device will prompt to enter a pin, but it happens fairly rarely (probably more common if the payment is at a new location).
I also haven't examined the various contracts, but I'd be surprised if there was no option to dispute transactions below a certain limit as that could be exploited by banks or thieves (but I repeat myself) or shops. An unscrupulous shop could double up transactions or change the amount paid and customers would not be happy if the bank turned round and said "it's below the £50 limit, so we don't care". The bank is more likely to push the problem onto the retailer and simply refund the customer and charge the retailer.
Personally, I don't like contactless due to the change of responsibility between the customer and bank and prefer to use PINs. As far as I know, I can't get just a PIN card as they all have contactless enabled.
In some places Visa/MC is the default way to pay. Such as large parts of Europe now that the fees are capped. The cashier asks you to pay, you hold your card up to the terminal, and you've paid. Some places like Australia have their own local systems that are more commonly used by locals and probably have lower fees, but those POS also support Visa/MC. It's just the default way to pay internationally now.
Except in the US, it does. Depending on the card, it can cost as much as 4.5% (or more!) to run the card. You can argue that it shouldn't, but that's a different statement than it doesn't.
it is illegal for Merchants to charge credit card processing fees by law, they have to absorb these fees and cannot display them to the customer.
This naturally protects the artificial oligopoly of visa/mc/discover systems.
The moment you allow Merchants to charge cc fees (even 2-3%) and allow customer to choose low processing option (ACH/debit card/cash), the whole scheme falls apart and Visa/MC will slowly go bankrupt
the typical Merchant<->bank agreements all have clauses forcing them to absorb these fees and explicitly barring them from separately charging customer CC fee.
and most small/med businesses dont have clout to protest that, so they have to accept these terms in order to earn money
This hasn't been the case for a wide variety of payment processors for quite a while now. Many of the new startup-based ones have features to help you pass through the fees even. Small business can use Stripe, Square, Clover, or one of many other payment processors that don't ban them from passing credit card fees forward to consumers.
> the typical Merchant<->bank agreements all have clauses forcing them to absorb these fees and explicitly barring them from separately charging customer CC fee.
These clauses would be illegal in many states and countries these days, so they don’t.
EU max credit card transaction fees are 0.3%, in the US they can be up to 4%.
It just doesn't cost 4% of a transaction to handle the exchange of funds. Just wealth transfer to finance people and the upper class who take advantage of credit card perks.